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Krusk!... Stormherald



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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re: Speak Frankly.

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My ideas may be jumbled cause I'm tired but here goes.

People really just gotta start expressing their ideas other then in angry vent or guild chat. If things go wrong, something is unfair or something is exploited. If you just QQ, bitch and moan, things will never change. Speak frankly with people, post forums, ask our great and fearless Moo.

If you want to express a certain idea, don't just say it aloud and hope something will change. Don't waste time with tongueless words and ideas that never reach any ears. If you just say I need this, what happened to me its not gonna do shit. We need this and what happened to us is the ideal point of view.

So my ideas are, Lower Thresh-hold for the Veto List, end times for raids and very small debated changes to the guild.

People need to take a stand, if Mr. Moo leaves we must have more people that can speak frankly.

P.S. The teabag is much more then it seems to be. And all this seriousness is to much for me, I'm going to bed. Before you respond to it, think about what I say and don't waste time.
The True Telarien

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I think a scheduled END time for the raid would be a good addition. If you know you have to leave before the scheduled end, tell someone. If you leave before the scheduled end without letting us know you are going to, a penalty should be enforced. 1-3 spots dropped in veto list? If we finish early, cool. If we have to go past the scheduled end and someone leaves then nobody can say shit about them cause thats later than they were planning for.

Raid leader prints a veto list before the raid so the list can be checked without pause (to prevent wipes due to loot sorting during trash, reduce down-time, etc) or a modification to the rules for those situations (aka no veto, all open roll or something else like that)

Loot: Veto list doesn't move that much.. it would if people used their veto but thats apparently not happening. I think a drop tax across the entire list should be enforced. I think the tax should be enforced for offsets (maybe a smaller tax) 3 spots for main set items, 2 spots for off set items, 1 spot for patterns etc.. Otherwise, maybe a DKP system?

Inactivity: taking a week off is fine (or two like it is now?) on the day you hit the two week mark - aka exactly 14 days after your last raid you drop 2-3 slots, another week goes by (day 21) you drop 4-6 slots, another week goes by (day 28) you drop 6-8 slots. Inactive players at the bottom of the list remain below someone who used a veto (for example, telarien has been inactive for 28 days and is at the bottom of the list... then Darkbahamut vetoes on gear that night. instead of going below Telarien, he goes on top of Telarien and all the other inactives) After a set time, people fall off the list? 1 month, 2 months?

Just my thoughts and suggestions. Criticism doesnt hurt my feelings so feel free to rip apart anything in this post you dont like or fervently support anything you do.
Finaljustice



Joined: 16 Mar 2008
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Something needs to be done about inactivity fully agreed. People that never raid are on top of the veto list forcing the active raiders to save vetos for fear of losing them and never getting them back. Something also needs to be done about the caliber of player thats going to raids. Someone in full blues no offense to anyone has no place in honestly not really even SSC/TK. Its going to hold us back if we keep bringing people like that to raids who keep dying or screwing up because they don't have the gear they should to be in the raid.
Darkbahamut
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Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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I totally agree with Kitty about the all blues thing. I made my own post so im not gonna say anything about that. Going to the raid end time. I think it is a good idea but we need to make it somehow for raiders to have some initiative to stay later if the raid does go later than it is posted. If a raid night isnt going well and a raider sees that the raid end time is over, they can just say they have to go b/c they dont want to deal with the wipes and suck. Its also very hard to determine how long our raids go. We either have nights where people are on the ball and do their jobs or people just arent ready and we wipe constantly. Btw, wiping...., especially on high-end raid content is a part of wow. Its easy to make mistakes. Now if the same mistakes keep happeneing then you either need to find a new raid or a new method. Krusk you also complained about things being a little too serious. Yes i feel that way sometimes too, but really there is a time and place for when you need to fuck around and when you need to get down to business. Unless we have shit on farm, during any type of combat, people need to pull their heads out of their asses and just be serious for the raid. Myself included. I felt that last night in hyjal, a lot of people were just kinda screwing around, not caring if we got that next boss. If thats the mood im gonna be playing around, then dont expect me in raids. I will definitely admit to being one of those people in raids, but i think its time for the nonsense to stop during raids. If people truly did want to progress as much as I do and Matty does, then we are going to need to hold off on saying that funny punch line or whatever. Theres just way too much traffic on vent and sometimes it makes my ears bleed. So, maybe im being too strict but i think we need to buckle down even when we are doing trash. Raiding is to be taken serious. Matty even expressed in the rules of the guild that we as players are required to be mature about things. Ill probably want to say something silly every once in a while, and im probably not the right person to be telling people to shut the fuck up on vent so this is really kind of a suggestion to someone that would be able to say that and have effect. Anyways, id just like our raids to be much more consistently cleaner, raids take a long time and i dont want to take any longer than i have to. If it means quiet mouse during the raid unless you have something important to say then so be it. I just really want us to get Archimonde,Kael, and the rest of BT.
Vituperate



Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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We had 2 wipes last night due to kitty receiving very minimal heals in a small amount of time. One time was my fault because I got teleported into the mobs and butt fucked following a lag out on the attempt where he died. The problems that we are having are players are relying on the top 2-3 healers to be taking care of all heals while they toss heals here or there. IMHO there is no reason that Verlo and Myself should have to Focus heals on a tank in order to keep them up. In hyjal there is not that much raid damage! A few melee like Krusk gets spiked due to his huge dmg output but that can't be avoided. I was spamming Lesser/Greater Healing wave max ranks on tanks in order to keep the 3 of them up. It sucks for my mana pool and yes I may not be top on the healing done list but when I was watching tanks over all else they were alive and breathing despite the occasional spiking that pallies can take.

Veto List: When we had active raiders at the top I think I moved up the veto list back into veto range twice in 3 weeks. Now it's been another 2-3 weeks since I last veto'd and I have maybe moved up 1/2 the list towards the threshold. Something really needs to be done about this. Maybe a minimum of 2-3 raids a week to stay on the veto list as well as having to stay active (Vacations and time off told to the officers ahead of time would be acceptable.) We have Tel who lives in Japan and still manages to meet these minimum # of raids in a week and since all the people who honestly deserve most of the gear due to raiding 4-5 days a week will move a lot more than everyone who comes 1-2 times in a week.

Vetos: People need to stop holding out for one item and veto. This system is broken if you don't even think twice about that first off. I.E.: Abyss wants the Tempest of Chaos and I am at the top of the veto list (spot 1) but Tier 6 gloves drop and we haven't even killed Archimonde right now. The T6 gloves are a huge upgrade for me regardless yet I say i'd rather have the TOC since its 20 spell dmg instead of the 13 that the T6 gloves gives so I roll and lose the item.

I just lost a valuable upgrade to my gear, this would help me out a huge bit. I am an active raider and me giving up on that chance on loot is ridiculous because eventually it will start hurting my gear and the raids overall dps.

For people complaining about new guys winning gear: More than a handful of you have vetos and have NEVER ONCE used them on the pieces and then you QQ about losing the piece. Imo if you have the veto and don't use it then it is your own fault due to sitting on a guranteed piece of loot.

On the gear/playstyle subject I have to agree with everyone else. It is ridiculous that our top dps and most active raiders in the past 2 weeks have lost a count of 7 pieces of gear to people in blues/greens. These guys shouldn't be in Hyjal/BT which are non-farm instances until they have learned to raid and had the gear from the easy instances. I am tired of putting out 12-1400 dps just to watch a new guy toss out 6-700 dps. On the same note I was outhealing people in Hyjal last night on my ALT. Verlo/Korimu/Myself were holding up 65% of the heals with 7 healers. These new guys need to work on gear outside of raids also. I NEVER see these guys running heroics for badges or karazhan for badges. The badge gear is equivalent to T5. Take advantage of this.

A lot of us are getting burnt out when we have 24 people doing their job and then 1 person doesn't do what they're supposed to. Matty said to the people that died on orbs on VR that we shouldn't be in on fights like Archimonde. I agree partially, in my own defense I was healing melee I intend on taking 1 soak of a Arcane Orb. I have the HP and healing capability to survive. I took one, then another was coming down on my head so I ran BACKWARDS instead of to the side (this is what I was instructed to do) when I see someone else running to the side behind me bringing an orb with him thus getting me killed. On Solarian the same person that blew up half of the group came in to Hyjal and blew up all the melee because they couldn't listen to instructions.

It's getting to the point that I don't know what toon to play anymore because I don't know if I can fix a small problem on heals or dps. We have a lot of amazing DPS guys. Warlocks especially. These guys can't be expected to carry freeloaders (sorry but guys in greens and blues aren't helping).

As for a personal issue I had some qualms with a few people and since thus I believe they have been resolved. So I apologize for those outbursts and the guild drama that it brought.

On a brighter note: Hydesai for the Warglaive President of Dog!
Darkbahamut
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re: Speak Frankly.

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I agree with you partly abyss about the minimum req to have a veto through attendance. I agreee that we should somehow give the advantage to the people that raid 70%+ of the raids b/c most of those people have worked their ass off to get where they are. My disagreement to the 3-4 raid attendance is that it also gives those people that are in raids all the time pretty much a unfair advantage. We have some really good people that have limited schedules because they have to work etc. Take myself for instance, some weeks ill have it where im only working the weekend and can raid during the week, then other weeks im working 4-5 nights and cant make it in time for the raid. It is absolutely impossible for me to make it on time anyways. My brother kinda has the same situation, but he works a lot more than me and his schedule is extremely volatile. Now im only speaking as if this 3-4 req would only disadvantage me and my brother, but there are also a lot of people that have to work nights and do other stuff. So if I spent 3-4 weeks building my way up the veto list and then one week i can only make 1-2 of the raids and im taken off the list, im shit out of luck.

Now going to another point. I havent seen a few people online for raids for a while now that i see as some of our prime players, skill and gear-wise. I mean yes you might not need any gear out of a certain boss anymore, but we do and we are still having trouble getting certain aspects of the raids down. I was so excited to go to Hyjal for the first time the other night and from what i heard, you guys were kicking ass in there. When we started going along, i just saw sloppy and careless mistakes that just wasnt excusable. I can understand if it was your first time in there, for it was mine too and i didnt do too hot either, but i still didnt wipe our healers or screw up big time. Right as i got home 30 min b/f the raid, i watched 4/5 boss vids for hyjal just to have a feeling of what to expect. So this one is going out to people exploring things that are new to you, if you dont know the fight, research it, it makes it much easier to understand what matty/ the explainer is talking about. When frith and verlo were explaining the fights i could recognize what they were talking about, excluding our own DoG touch tactics.

Now moving to the veto list. I am one of the bitches that have been whining about the veto list b/c i havent been getting any gear. I know i am selfish a lot of the time and i should be glad other people get those drops. I just dont like it when i see people that have greens/blues still on and they roll and win on a drop that someone else more deserving could of gotten. If i want a drop that will give me a upgrade for a while, i will use my veto. But i havent had a veto ever since ive been back and a lot of people dont have veto's either so they really cant do anything to guarantee their gear. Now the only reason i would want to see a raider replacing a blue over other people that want the drop in full epics is when we need that certain class/person to get geared such as a healer. We need many more geared healers on standby b/c that has been a big problem it seems. I am going to try to get my shaman to 70 as fast as i can and get him in kara as quick as i can. If other fresh 70s are wanting to get gear, i would be more than happy to bring you along to kara/gruul. Those are great places to practice raiding and get some decent gear. Kara also = many badges. I would not mind at all carrying 2-3 people thru kara so they can get gear. I still need badges on dark, and i feel that my dps is good enough to carry 1-2 poorly geared dps. I know other people that are raiding high-end content still need badges, and if you can get one together and time permits, i will go and hopefully others too.

Going on to dps( only for Abyss, so everyone else dont look!) actual DPS (not overall dmg) can sometimes mean absolutely nothing in a fight, for im full frost and can usually put out 1050-1200 dps (usually) while warlocks are putting out 12-1400 dps but i still beat them in overall dmg. So really people can have a small DPS but still wtfpwn the meter. And also, if dps can find ways where they can boost their survival % in some way on a certain aspect of the raid, do it. If it drops your dps by 2-3% dear god i dont think it will halt us from progressing. You do more damage when youre alive the whole fight instead of you put out retarded dmg and then die midway thru the fight. I as frost put out respectable dmg and have ice barrier AND two iceblocks. TWO O-SHIT buttons.

I make my comments way too long
Ilpalazzo



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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re: Speak Frankly.

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Hey guys, this is Ilp. Really the biggest thing that has been bugging me lately, and it might just be me I guess, is that people are far to concerned about the what the damage meters look like and not enough about actually killing the boss. So many times I've watched dps die all around me simply because they couldnt interupt their cast to move the out of totally avoidable damage. This becomes and even bigger problem on fights where you are not only killing yourself but the people around you. Believe me, its much better to interupt your cast and move into a safe position to continue dpsing rather than get that last cast off and die as a result. Accidents happen I understand, but there are a few people that I've noticed that will consistently try to soak damage and rely on healers to keep them up just so they can keep dpsing. No offense, but I will usually let you die. My priority is the tank first and foremost and I will only spare you a heal if I think I can afford it.

So in summary, please please please, turn off the damage meters during fights. No one is gonna care for more than a few minutes after the fight who was on top and who was number 5. In about 75% of the fights we are on right now, survivability is the key component to victory and unless we are riding the enrage timer pretty closely there is absolutely no reason that any of us should be putting ourselves and possibly the rest of the raid in danger just so our damage can be a bit higher on the meters.

I just want to point out that not all dps are like this, just a few people I've happened to notice and just wanted to vent about it a little. I also know that my heals arent always spot on so feel free to rip me about it if you guys want, hehe.

About the veto list, I agree than inactive people or people trying to save their veto for something out of reach to us at the moment should suffer a penalty after a certain amount of time. As for loot distribution in general, I think that people playing alts that arent key raiders (i.e. a dps class such as a rogue bringing their mage alt to a raid) should be forced to yield loot to people raiding on their main characters simply for the sake of progression. On the flip side, I have no problem with people such as Hydesai getting loot for his pally because he brings it to the raid often enough that it helps our progression. Its kind of ridiculous that someone can bring in their alt and take an upgrade from a regular raider even though they raid with that character maybe 10-20% of the time. Of course we are going to down new content either way, but I believe if we gear up our main raiding team first and put alts to the wayside then we will be progressing just that much faster.

Anyway, thats just my thoughts on things.
Biff Rocku
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re: Speak Frankly.

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Raid wiping crap: Ilp brings out a great point. I can't say too much about it b/c i was nuked several times in TK trash (freaking whirlwind) b/c i didn't want to be completely worthess (insert sanka dps joke here). But honestly, those of us who are getting killed or WIPING RAIDS just because they were too selfish to get the freak outta the way need to put some big boy pants on and do wat's best for the raid.
Blues/Greens: I'm saying this out ouf sympathy for the people who bust their butts raiding and not directing this hatefully at those in DoG who have crappy gear. If you are not geared enough (or just arn't intelligent enough to follow directions) there are other ways to get gear than SSC/TK/BT raids. I know it sucks, but the people in blues/greens coming , I feel, are hurting progression raids. Whether they be healers or dps, with Kael and Archimonde on the brink of destruction we can't afford to carry anyone through it (insert another sanka dps joke here).
Solution to above problem^---: I think that we should have 2 raid schedules. One for those of us who are uber geared and one for those of us who need gear. Will continue in a bit getting nagged tongue out...Continuing on. We could schedule 2 raids per night. One being the SSC/TK/BT nights...like usual, and Kara/gruuls/mag for those of us who arnt as geared. We can have someone who doesn't have the best gear, but has expierienve w/ those raids lead them. This would give the people in our guild a chance to get gear and a chance to get expierience raiding. We could add like a second veto list for those people in the "lesser" raid group.
Loot system: I personally like our loot system except for the fact that Sanka doesn't have unlimited vetos (what's up w/ that?). But seriously i like our loot system. Yes, it is a little slow right now being that people arn't using their vetos BUT every loot system has flaws, except for an impartial loot council. I would love the loot council, but i know people would claim favorites.
Well there is Sanka's two cents on all things DoG in the World of Warcraft. Feel free to critisize and what not. Especially the solution to blues/greens.


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~Sanka~ THE ALMIGHTY (well...almost)
Darkbahamut
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re: Speak Frankly.

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I would absolutely love for 2 raids to happen a week sanka and if we had 40 70s on a night that could probably happen. But we dont, the reason we bring some people in blues/greens is b/c we dont have all our geared people on. Ill admit sometimes i see much more capable dps/healers online for the raid than the ones signed up, but thats not very often. Some people that are regularly signing up for raids have gear that is good but only sub-par for the raids we are doing. I know if people sign up for raids they should have priority when being picked to go to the raid, but sometimes we just need to tell a person, look we'd like to take you but you've got to work on your gear a little so you can keep up. I remember when i had been 70 for about 7 days, and i was thinking, man im so stoked to be kara eligible! My brother, Yon, held me off from doing kara until i got my own gear that would be respectable to do kara, and i did and i finally got into kara not too long from that time. Really it doesnt take very long for you guys to get a couple pieces of new gear, i mean just try to find BOE craft items that would help you, and badge gear, rep factions anything. I learned the hard lesson a long time ago, dont wait for drops, you come to the gear on your own. True there is a point where you can only do so much, but i see gear that can be replaced by guys on their own. But i mean going to the undergeared people, matty and other officers dont need to schedule things for you, just because it says there is a raid on the group calendar doesnt mean that nothing else can be put on there. Attempt to schedule a gruul on one day or mag or ZA. See if this attracts anyone. Another problem i see from this however is people that are our main raiders will stray from the main raid that night and do the secondary one so they can get a certain drop. but really if that happens, to me that will tell me and other people that you give a damn about our progression until we get certain stuff on farm. I can understand how some people could say that i have been one of the people that has bided their time until we down a boss and then jump in, because i have been absent for a while and during that time you guys were doing vashj/MH. Hopefully i can be one of those guys that gets in on kael the most but its my work schedule. I am all about learning the fights firsthand. I hate being on bosses that everyone else is familiar w/ while im still in the clouds on what to do. I feel that i learn fights better when they are fresh to the guild as well for we are throwing in suggestions all the time on how to do things and thats just my learning style. But anyways( i stray from the point way too much as well) Two raids a night would be fantastic sanka, if only we had the man power for that. We have a busy raid schedule as it is, and really we shouldnt be taking any days off of the week in order to progress, b/c we need two nights for ssc, two nights in TK( one night is for kael after we do mount hyjal), and now 3 nights for BT. Really right now i think kael should be our top priority. So i say we either skip some bosses in SSC or just skip a night of SSC in order to practice on kael. I just feel that 2-3 nights in a row of kael attempts would really help us progress immensely on him. To me, raiding a certain boss constantly until they are down even if it carries to the next day is the best way to go if we really need that boss down. We still have the kael fight in our heads from the last night attempt on him and we remember the tactics for it, not tactics from SSC, BT or MH. So to me i think for a week or two we need to not think of SSC and focus on kael. This will halt our gear a little, but i think we'll survive. Just a suggestion
Ugdhar
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re: Speak Frankly.

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In all honesty, we need to stop bringing guys that aren't mostly T5ed out to Hyjal and BT.

When I've busted my hump getting geared out for BT/Hyjal, and then guys decked out in T4, maybe some blues, get a spot, that makes me think putting out T4 lvl damage in this raid is ok, and saps any will to even try.

No slam to the guys in T4s and stuff, but really you don't belong in Hyjal/BT. Sign up and show up for TK/SSC nights, and get geared.

I'm not going to go to TK/SSC anymore (except for the end bosses if room becomes available) to make extra room for you guys, because really, you need this shit out of there if you are ever gonna belong in our raids. Expecting to jump from T4 -> T6 is just unrealistic.

If this is something that IS acceptable, I'll be raiding with my mage a hell of a lot more in endgame raids.
Barthedis(Best holy pally on SoE)

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I fully agree with Ug, i mean, people getting into t6 raids who arent even remotely geared for it is very bad, it causes the raid trouble due to a lack in dps, heals, or w/e role that person may play, can prevent consistant raiders from getting the gear they need, and isnt even worth the trouble of bringing someone who cant pick up their own slack, i also will not be doing ssc/tk anymore other than vashj and kael when needed due to the lack of gear of some of the people weve been bringing into our t6 content raids lately
hyde713
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I agree with ugd.........

sometimes matty tell me....gears are < player's skills....I agree! But! geared are geared! and i believed most of our core raiders have the ability and knowledges on how to benefit the raids....As I said before....my frd's guild can down the 2nd boss in MH in 3.5 minutes....and why are we taking 6.5 minutes?!

simply saying: Lack of DPS! We shall see more of this problem happening in fights like Bloodboil~ where there is a enrage timer....with 9 healers in the grp...DPS must be very strong in order to down him........

Loot system thoughts: when we 1st start applying a loot system in DoG...I have been thinking what can be the fairest way towards the guild as a whole....however.....after i read Dark's post..i totally agree the fact that we have spent 100 times efforts and time, wipes on those bosses and we definately deserve more....On the main/alt issue...I still believe main deserve gears piror than the alts...thats why i never roll against a main healer anymore on my pally..

Think about it....DKP is the system which ensure active raiders to get their gears....it also encourge players to raid often!~ and yea~ everybody said there will be a problem like the Top DKP raiders stay on Top...that's becuz they attend raid more often than u do...and they certainly deserve their gears 1st in order for our further progresion...
It is the same idea with our veto system now........You can decided how much DKP u wanna bet on a gear...after u get it... your DKP goes down....and people behind u goes up.......isn't that the same as our veto system?!
when people talked about...;." OKAY a new guy came into our raid....and our DKP is way higher than he does........is that mean he won;t get any gears anytime soon?! YES! but he will eventually gets it...if he keep raiding with us~ and when everyone got the loot and he can just bet his minium DKP to get that piece of gear! isn't that the same idea that new guys start off from bottom of the veto list...and wait for that veto?! instead they needa come raid but not sitting their ass and wait for their spot to go up?

I just wanna say...core raiders deserve more....since we are the one who get us from kara all the way to BT...I won't be putting out good DPS without my gears...and certainly i am not the best rogue........Rubix is in my mind.....from what I have heard he has been very busy..and ....he got pissed off becuz some new guys got a piece of loot out from him while that guy just joined the guild for couple days .....its really sad that we lost a great DPS...
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