Do we Want a Loot System. Yes or No

[lazaruss]

The system can be worked out later, but seeing as how we are pushing into the 25 man raids now, i would like to get a general idea of what people want. Don't need any arguments, just post Yes or No.


me - Yes


ps. yes i have gotten a lot of gear and its more for the people who are getting unlucky so they get their fair share. I am looking at this for 25 man raids only.

[Isasuke]

I say Yes to needing a Loot system. My favorite idea is a Loot Consul which go into a different channel in vent and discuss Who the item helps the most but not just that. They take into consideration amount of time raiding and Other things which will prevent guild hopping. I think this is REALLY good for trying new bosses it may be dropped after we have a boss on farm for awhile because it could slow down the raiding break between boss to boss. This isn't bad for us considering we have bout an hour after we down a boss so people can switch to their alts... This is just my View so hey whatever. I think we have a lot of people who can look at armor and know what is a better upgrade.

[Yongary/Dilemmachine]

yes

too many people get blinded by shiny new gear and fail to realize it's not always as big of an upgrade as they thought. i like loot council idea.

[The True Telarien]

I vote Yes.

This isnt so much about loot as it is about progression. If we do whats best for the guild, we progress :-)

[Crazy.Insane]

I vote yes. I have faith in the people who would be included in the loot council.

Verlo

[Ugdhar]

Yes for a system, but this isn't a "Yes for system X", that needs to be discussed.

(Edited to just be a vote, coulda used a poll thingy tho!)

[redneckloger]

i have givin up a few things for udgs priest that would have been good for me too just to make him better so if you bring him you know i am not gonna comlain abut you gettin shit over me... i might yell fuck, or say "you fuckin dick udg!" but really i dont care its all for the better of the guild

[Elithius]

I vote yes toward a loot council. ONLY if......

If its not just based on

1. Which person needs the loot more via gear improvement.


We need to have opportunity's for the regulars to get this gear as well.


I think time spent raiding, and of course consistency with attendance is vital to this. I mean not that I am top dps, but I am top 5 generally, and we want drops too.

I understand the importance of this progression as a guild, and though you may not get every drop you need, you pretty much already don't so qq imo. We are a "family" and we need to take care of each other, thats what guilds are for.


I would say the loot council will cause drama though. Some people may /gquit if they get effed in the A. If this happens, changes may need to be made to the system, as it may not be perfect the first time attempt.

[Grenn]

the best loot councils work on 1 rule:

put the loot where it will do the most good for the GUILD.

This means:

regulars will get gear first

mains will get gear over alts

tier tokens will go out in priority, Tank>Healers>DPS

a regular raider will get gear for an offspec before an alt or someone who rarely raids

These are the rules that high end guilds follow. It puts the gear where it will do the most good for the most people.

Generally the loot council will be staffed by the officers of the guild, and they have to endeavor to pass out loot fairly and evenly. One character shouldn't walk out of a raid with more than 2 new pieces of loot unless the player went above and beyond the call of duty during the raid, or no one else needs the items. It's best to spread the gear around so that if someone can't make it to a raid you're not loosing a major portion of your tanking, heals, or dps. A guild shouldn't depend on a small group of people to get things done, it should depend on the whole.

If during a raid someone's tanking, healing, or dps is found lacking it should be the object of the loot council to find out why. If being undergeared is the cause then that character should probably get priority on gear till he catches up, keeping the 4 rules above in mind of course. If the character's found lacking and gear is not the issue then the officers should find out how they can help the player use his gear properly, but that's another issue entirely.

In any case, I'm in favor of having some sort of loot council. Whether it follows the rules I've shared is up to the loot council itself.

[Ugdhar]

(Removed)

[Isasuke]

Yes people will complain about not getting loot or whatever but the main people in the guild that are the people who actually raid as much as they can. Will see that it is helping the guild out more in the long run then if they were to get a slight improvement. So they will be quiet and not complain of course they will feel wronged but hey it is in the past by then. also the Counsel of people IS VERY important. I think we should do a vote like the way we did in the mail for an officer or whatever it was. It can get everyones opinion

[Darkbahamut]

Yes, Loot council is the best imo. I trust most of the officers in the guild and i think that more than one person or rolls will distribute gear fairly by taking into consideration the play of a guy such as how much they are on for raids, how dependable they are and how much they contribute to the guild itself. We need to give out gear that WILL HELP US PROGRESS instead of throwing around the gear to the luckiest guy. We need to first give gear to most reliable raiders and then on to the others. I think it would just make me feel better if i was outdone on a piece of gear if it was for someone that would make more use of it.
-Darkbahamut

[redneckloger]

Grenn wrote:

a regular raider will get gear for an offspec before an alt or someone who rarely raids

This one isn't fair. For instance, a holy priest should NOT get a dps piece over a mage/lock/shad priest, regardless of if they raid all the time or not. Some people just don't have the option to play whenever they want, and while I'd go along with a main raider should get a primary piece before a once-in-a-while raider, offsets should be LAST priority, after alts, after infrequent raiders. Offsets do not progress the guild at all, while getting an infrequent raider geared could be that key to help out when we least expect it. I would forsee this causing some issues.[/quote]

i agrre with you udg thats the most retarted thing i have ever read. off sets should be the last thing anyone should be worried about becase it helps nothing and most of the time when people jump specs there gear sucks for all of them

[The True Telarien]

lazaruss wrote:

The system can be worked out later

Not to be rude or anything but you guys are starting to get away from the point of this thread... There's another one for the discussion....

[Jadano]

tel, even though we have another thread for this topic, and laz stated that details can be figured out later, people are still going to post their opinions

And, since i didnt respond to the other post, ill throw my 2 cents in on this post...

Personally I am all for the loot council idea, we had originally talked about it when we first started to raid kara a long time ago, yet we never did anything further with the idea. I also like the idea of taking a vote to see who would be on the loot council as then if people dont like the decisions that the loot council makes, there isnt really much they can say since they had a part in the vote of who would be on the loot council.

Mains before alts
I am all for this idea aslong as(and i know many people have said this, im just restating) you are not required to bring in your alt because we are short a tank/heals. If we are short something for the raid that night, and people are willing to bring in their alt to help out, then they should have an equal roll against anyone else since they had to sit out their main character for the night.

Tanks>heals>dps
I personally do not think this is a good idea at all. And no it has nothing to do with the fact that I am a mage...cause if you think about it, i roll against locks and hunters so it would not apply to me anyway. The reason i do not think this is a good idea is because our tanks/healers are more than geared enough for the ssc/tk content that we are in atm. Currently our dps as a whole sucks. When we have tanks that are higher on the dps charts than someone who is specced for dps, there is a problem. Whether it is because gear of the dps is horrible, or because they do not know their class as well as they should, im not sure, but we need to do something. Since our dps seems to be the problem atm i think that the gear should go to them first before a tank or a healer. When we get to newer content to where it is obvious that we cant down him because our tank/heals are undergeared for him, then i will change my position, but at the current content lvl there is no issue with the gear of our tanks/heals(there may be an issue with tank/healing ability, but that is beside the point ) So until we get to that point in raiding, i think the gear should go to dps.

Another problem i have with the tanks>heals>dps thing is that if we do that, that means that shadow preists will always be last. To me this is just plain stupid. Why they may not always be the best dps, they are probably the greatest support class there is. The mana/health regen ability they have is just fucking amazing. If they are put in a group with tanks, it is constantly giving the tanks hp regen, which makes it easier on the healers as they wouldnt have to heal as much which would allow them to be able to heal longer. If we put them in a healer group, not only does it heal the dmg that group is taking, but it also gives the healers mana back, which allows healers to heal longer, thus keeping the tanks alive longer. And the more dmg the shadow preists do, the more health/mana regen they are bringing back in. So imo they should get gear first over both the tanks and heals.


If we do go to a loot council, which i really hope we eventually do, even though it may take a while to set up, some things i think the council should look at when making a decision are...

1) Outside gearing
We still have way to many people in the guild that are not taking advantage of all the gear that is available outside a raid. Yes i understand that people have lives outside of WoW. But, imo if you have time to raid, you have time to spend on getting gear. Even if you only spend a little time each day, or hell even every other day, doing heroics, BGs, within a week or so you can get a new shiny piece of gear! I do not think it would be fair to give an awesome raid piece to someone who does nothing at all to improve their gear outside of a raid, and just shows up in crappy gear that can be easily replaced. Hell there is even some better shit on the AH than what i have seen some people in.

2) Showing up
I also think props should go to the people that are constantly available to be there for a raid. Again, i understand, there is a life outside wow. If you say something to someone saying that you arent going to be available that night for a raid, im perfectly ok with that, cause you let us know ahead of time, and we wont be expecting you. It really sucks when you are expecting someone to show, and they dont, and we have to take in a PuG, which honestly hurts the guild as a most if a PuG ends up with gear, cause that does nothing at all to help our progression. I know somethings come up sometimes, and you just cant log on or let anyone know, but we constantly have people just not showing up on certain raid nights.

3) Attitude
Personally i think showing up to a raid with a good attitude is really helpful. Some people just show up, and if we wipe a few times on new content, they are just ready to go. People need to realize that this is NEW content, which means about 90% of us have had no experiences with these bosses, which means you should come to the raid expecting to wipe, maybe a lot, and you need to be ready to pay repair bills. If your expecting the raid to go 100% smooth everytime...you need to get over it, cause for the most part its not going to happen.

4)Outside preperation
This means getting potions, elixirs, flasks, buff foods, enchanting oils. Every little bit helps. Most of this stuff is very easy to get, and helps out a ton. Even if you just buy just get one of the list, every bit helps. Also included in outside preperation is knowing the fight ahead of time, no what your class is susposed to do, where you are susposed to go when the boss does one certain move. We spend about 5-10 mins downtime before we start a boss so matty can explain the fight. If people take the time to go to youtube and watch a vid, or to a boss guide website it would save us time, and give us more chances at that boss before the trash respawns; or if can kill him fast enough, it would give us more time to maybe move farther that night before people have to log. We normally talk about what bosses we are going to attempt in which raid, so people have plenty of time to read up on that boss. I personally find time to read up on bosses when i am afking on lath in a BG


more to come later...but im in London atm, and im going to go out drinking now!

(Edit) added more to loot council and Tank>heals>dps