Filling our plate too full

[Ugdhar]

I want to do Hyjal. I want to do Black Temple.

But NOT at the expense of our 'real' progression'. I think we're trying to do too much, too fast.

My opinion is that, especially after not getting very far in SSC last night, we should NOT be scheduling Hyjal/BT nights, or limit it to *1* night for one or the other, not 2 nights.

A couple of guys have let me know they're feeling kinda burned out raiding 7 nights a week. I don't blame them, I just keep going because I don't want to miss anything, I'll probably get burned out myself.

But we cannot, CANNOT, be jumping into Hyjal and BT, without even having cleared the other shit in SSC/TK we can clear.

I'm not going along with Shizno's "we don't belong in there", cuz that's bullshit too. But we DON'T belong in there when there is stuff we can still kill in TK/SSC that we've killed before. If we go to Hyjal or BT instead of killing that shit, we might as well skip Al'ar every single time. (if you get my meaning.)

[slay13]

I don't think we did all that poorly last night Ug. We killed 2 boss', we were planning on 3, we got started an hour late when healers didnt show. 2 weeks ago we only got hydross/lurker on saturday, and then went in on monday for about 90 minutes to kill leo, I don't see anything wrong with keeping SSC 2 nights. If we can't do it in 2 nights then we can't do it.

We raided for 3 hours, thats about as long as we should be in any of these raids on any given night. Wednesday is a new night for us man, and honestly, and kills on that night put us ahead of where we were 2 weeks ago. We wouldnt have even started in there till saturday and already we have 2 boss' dead ahead of the pace we set then.

What we can't do if we expect guys to show up, on time, if at all, is to schedule 25's at the last minute, or overlap nights. I understand the frustration man, I feel it too at times, but if we plan on guys to use the scheduling system at all, this leads to confusion, and guys just not even signing up at all for raids.

I am going to be holding guys accountable to signing up/letting me know they are leaving early either in notes, or by mail/ingame at the start of the raid. I don't think its fair for guys to bail when we don't 1 shot boss' every time. It just doesnt happen that way every night for better or worse. We've been using the group calander for 2 weeks now, and I think thats enough time to have let guys get on board for it or not, so from now on I am lowering guys on the list for lates/early departures/repeated suspicious disconnects ect.

[Ugdhar]

No, we didn't do that bad. But we can't have the calendar all filled up with Hyjal/BT when we've only downed 2 bosses in a place we should be downing 4 before resets.

I'm excited about new stuff too, but not at the expense of losing what we've already accomplished.

Perhaps make 1 person (you or Laz maybe) in charge of scheduling 1 25 man raid in advance, instead of having the whole weekened booked with shit that we shouldn't be doing in lieu of finishing up TK/SSC.

Just seems like we're trying to do too much too quickly is all.

[slay13]

From now on i'll schedule the 25's, that sounds like a decent idea. Would you guys like to cut back on nights a week to do 25's? if so, what raids do we keep/not keep? What boss' do we do/not do?

I'm fine with this if we do, but really, i feel we can be raiding 5 nights a week, and should at least keep it at that if we feel like we want to keep progressing. Otherwise we go back to 1 night SSC = 3 boss' ever.

We control how much we do or don't do guys. If guys don't want to raid as much, then we won't raid as much, either to them saying so, or due to them pulling crap like not showing up when they say, or just not for certain raids. I think we need to start running MH though Ug.

Its in lieu of where we are currently in progression. Pre-2.4, we'd have to have vaash/kael downed before. But progression wise...the first few boss' in both MH/BT are easier than those 2 guys. So if we are going to be spending time on new boss', I just think it makes sense to spend time on these boss' specifically, before alotting time to kael/vaash.

Does this mean we are skipping them? Not doing them? No, not at all. But, much like badge vendors/pvp gear, these new boss' that are open to us are a new resource that is available to us to help with progression. If we can farm them, and arent, then it'd be foolish to pass that up.

[Jadano]

Its not like we are ONLY doing those 2 bosses in SSC, another raid night for SSC was set for sat night, which is more than enough time to kill leo/fathom lord, and as long as we arent waiting forever for people to log on, we may also have time for tidewalker/vashj. As for TK, as long as people just do what they need to do and we get started at a decent time, there is no reason we cant kill those 3 bosses in one night, maybe with a little time left over for a kael attempt depending if we still have enough people. Also there is nothing planned for monday yet, which has normally been our "cleanup" night. So imo there is nothing wrong with the friday rage kill and sunday high lord kill. Also once more people get their improved trinkets and people get better at pulling the spikes out of people, those 2 fights would be something that we could do in 1 night instead of 2.

[Darkbahamut]

I am one of the people that are getting burned out from raiding so much every week. It's a feeling similar to work in which i feel that I HAVE to go if i want to make a profit. I really enjoy raiding and theres nothing else for me to do besides it, but i think we should hold back a little. I'm stoked that we are progressing as a guild, and yes i do think we have good enough ppl to do BT and MTH, but i think a lot of other ppl are just getting exhausted from it. My suggestion is to just cut back one or two of the nights, and for the raid(s) that we miss that week, we replace it w/ one that we did that week and do the missed raid the next week. I would think we would do this with SSC and TK personally but w/e works. That way we can still have 2 nights to do SSC and if we need it, 2 nights for TK. If people are up for doing another raid, then so be it, but imo i think the abundance of so many raids in the week is taking its toll on some or most people. I myself, am juggling a good bit right now with school, college choices, work and living with my parents. What raids we would cut back would just have to be a majority thing, but really i think that our guild is past doing mag and gruul, b/c if we have one person that gets 3/5 tier pieces in one night, then im thinking that a lot of people arent needing much or anything from those fights. Also, to take into consideration, a lot of people in the guild dont take kindly to wipes, myself included, and i just think that we shouldnt have fights that we are having repeated trouble with back to back, for that just pisses people off, demoralizes them and causes them not want to raid(we have enough drama as is). I think its evident that people are getting burnt from some raids due to poor attendance, and then some people just dont want to go and dont care. Whatever happens ill do as much as i can to help out, and i really want to progress too, but like ug said i think we are biting off more than we can chew and i just think we still need a little time. We still have plenty of time til WOTLK comes out so just slow it down and just let things flow better.

[Isasuke]

I hate how u all raid on weekend cause now i completly miss bosses like leo i think we should put bosses that we have on farm for the week and the ones new on the weekend that can even it out some so Tk and SSC on Week or spread it out then Summit on weekends and BT and New bosses of SSC and TK or whatever no i finish my really run-on sentence.

[The True Telarien]

LoL I thought this thread was going to be about too many people putting too much stuff on group calendar I see that was touched on and it looks like it was resolved *Go Matty!!* (I agree with the GM having the ultimate decision on what to raid and on which nights)

My thoughts on our raid schedule... I think the more days we can get raids going, the better. If you dont want to raid on a particular day, or feel like you are getting burned out, then dont sign up. So long as you raid a couple times a week, you still move in the loot list. I can only raid with the guild on Friday and Saturday nights. My timezone/work schedule does not allow anything else for me. I used my veto during a raid on the 5th and I am just under the veto line again! I wont be able to veto this weekend so it looks like with only making 2 days of raids, it takes 2 weeks under the line, then the third week you can use your veto again! Thats not a bad turnaround. (would be faster if more people used their veto!!)

So long as we cycle around our raids, everyone will get a shot at all the stuff they want. I dont know about cycling it every week, maybe once a month is good. Monday is pretty standard for cleanup

Example - 5 raid days (Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon) for us, our Mt Hyjal raids might get good enough to do First boss in MtHyjal, then try first boss in BT. With the following example, someone who can only raid One day still gets to see all of the content and has a month on each "block" of content to get a drop.

Month 1
Wed SSC
Fri SSC
Sat TK
Sun MT Hyjal/BT
Mon Cleanup

Month 2
Wed SSC
Fri TK
Sat Mt Hyjal/BT
Sun SSC
Mon Cleanup

Month 3
Wed TK
Fri Mt Hyjal/BT
Sat SSC
Sun SSC
Mon Cleanup

Month 4
Wed Mt Hyjal/BT
Friday SSC
Sat SSC
Sun TK
Mon Cleanup

[Grenn]

The solution to this is simple.

Matty schedules raids, you sign up or you don't, if we have enough people to raid then we do it, if we don't then we either find pugs or we move it to another night. Don't feel obligated to sign up for every raid, be there if you want to be there.

At the moment I have tons of time on my hands so I can afford to be at every raid and I enjoy raiding, it's really the only reason I still play WoW. Still, we raid very late and being up past 1am is really hard on me, so it is 'work' to be there at times. But you can say the same of anything that you enjoy doing in your spare time, to have fun sometimes you need to put in some effort and put up with things you don't enjoy.

If we find that we're not able to raid without getting a lot of pugs on certain nights of the week i'm sure Matty would stop scheduling raids for those nights, till then I'd expect to see raids scheduled atleast 5 nights a week from what Matty's said in other posts.

Remember that the more we raid the more time we have for important stuff on the weekends. If we can go into TK or SSC for 2-3 hours Wed-Fri and get 2 bosses killed each night that'll free up our weekend substantially for the real progression fights. We're 3/4 in TK, 4/6 in SSC, those are the fights we can do and if people pay attention during raids we can do them quickly and easily without much hassle. The key here is that we KNOW these fights but they're still complicated so we can 1 shot every boss in these instances when we're PAYING ATTENTION, otherwise it's a wipefest like lastnight in TK.